help, help, I'm being erased!

[such_heights]

*facepalm* Okay, look. I am both queer and female, and you know what's not okay? Implying that one of those things is more important than the other and should more strongly dictate my reading and writing habits.

Intersectionality: it's a thing.

Also, can we stop phrasing this whole mess in terms of a gender binary? There are a lot of gender identities represented within fandom, and plenty of them are being erased right now. Stop it, fandom!

In the great sprawling land that is the internet, it makes no sense to say 'there should be more x!' and mean 'there should be less y!'. There is, in fact, room enough for everything. I think there should be more femslash, I think there should be more genfic about female friendships, I think there should be more women-centric vids. That doesn't mean I think there should be less of anything else, because I am not a fan of lecturing a majority-female community about what they can or can't do.

Besides, I don't want there to be less slash anyway - it's about people like me, it's relevant to my interests! (Which is not to say every queer person connects with guyslash in that way.) No type of fanwork is the distinct product of a particular group, and as such you can't dismiss anything as having less value in terms of identity politics - 'straight women write slash and are anti-feminist!' etc. Um, no.

I tell you what there should be less of, though: misogyny and character-bashing and double standards! That's the stuff that makes fandom feel hostile to female characters sometimes, and you see it in guyslash and het and gen and poly and even, depressingly, in femslash. (I read a femslash story this one time that didn't even pass the Bechdel test, it was tragic.) And I think it's overly simplistic to talk about fandom just in terms of fanworks, when people's meta and squee and discussion has just as much impact on the overall environment. LJ/DW/IJ fandom is more than a fic archive!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to the Kahlan/Cara fic I've got open in tabs, whilst listening to the song I'm about to vid Merlin/Arthur to. I never before though that would make me feel ~edgy~.

Comments

[verasteine]

You know, I love interaction like this if only because it points out the weaknesses and inaccuracies of my own argument :). That's me saying, you're right! Actually, when you say, I don't think m/m fic generally is or should be about men, I found myself nodding. And I should rephrase my own argument there.

Sometimes, I like m/m fic because it's about men and masculinities. Other times, I like it because it's a view of men that I cannot get elsewhere. Most of television is men gazing at women, or women gazing at women. It's rarely women gazing at men. That's fine by me, I still enjoy a lot of it, I enjoy a lot of women's lit as well, but as far as a (straight) female, or perhaps even neutral, gaze of men, I have to turn to slash.

You're right, too, when you say that most slash/fanfic doesn't deal with the issue of masculinities. Selection bias or no, I have the same experience. I like the ones that do, but I like the ones that don't just as hard. (Something that in part influenced my argument is that I'm writing an epic about masculinities in Merlin, right now, and so it's on my mind -- no excuse.) Fanfic is diverse, and slash is a large body of (beautiful) stories about that diversity. So, yes.

Arthur is my favourite character by far at the moment, and I think you just summed up why I love him so hard. You're very perceptive about these characters; you wouldn't happen to write meta by any chance, would you? :)

[noracharles]

You're articulate, opinionated and you flatter me shamelessly, so I'm loving this interaction as well. And I'm very curious to read your epic about masculinities, and see what this gaze at men and examination of masculinity is all about. I might like it after all.

But I don't know you well enough to tell if you're really that thrilled to talk to someone with more to say about the characters than Ooh, Pretty or if you're mocking me ever so gently. I don't think it's particularly insightful to be able to get "Arthur struggling with familial duty vs. personal inclination" out of the show when the character says "I can't go against my father!" and looks angsty in nearly every episode.

Anyway, no, I don't write Merlin meta, sadly. If I did, I would write about the It's Fun Because It's Incest! :-D thing they have going, which I like. Also, how does Gaius get his hair to be that stiff? I think he rinses it in gelatin.

[verasteine]

Why, thank you! You know, when I say, 'epic about masculinities', there is a plot in there somewhere, and it doesn't read like at first glance, but it's underneath, it's what drives the story in my head. That means that basically, I have no idea if anyone else will see it as a critique of how Merlin displays masculinities and what I don't like about that. Ahem. You may call that out as a disclaimer; it was :).

As for the gaze thing, which is less in the fic, although in there -- I meant the way that men are not allowed to be pretty and objectified. Women are. Women wear makeup on tv that makes them look like they wear makeup; male actors wear makeup because they'll look pale under the harsh lights. They don't get done up to look pretty, just to look better. Cameras, similarly, don't admire the male body; they view it, then slide caressingly over the female form. I exaggerate, but part of my love for slash is that slash authors take the time to say, 'he is beautiful', and show me why. Since I'm a straight female, it's nice to have that sentiment reflected.

I do not mock you! On the contrary. There's very few people who look at Merlin and have something to say beyond the obvious, and what may be obvious to you is not so obvious to me, who's new to the show.

Meta -- write it and I'll read it. Even one about Gaius' hair :). I'd friend you, but I'm actually over at LJ and not on DW at all :(.

[noracharles]

I like fic that makes me work a bit to get at what's underneath, so I consider that description an enticement :-)

I like that about slash as well, not only because I'm attracted to men, but also because physical attraction is important for me to buy sexual desire, and in straight romance I sometimes get the feeling that she's supposed to want to have sex with him simply because it's what he wants, and that's not exactly inspiring for me.

Oh, well I'm glad you're not mocking me! You can read my posts at nora_charles if you're interested, but I don't write about Merlin. Though I guess I might, if I think someone is going to be reading it.

[verasteine]

Friended you!

Re. straight romance: yes. I like it a lot more when both characters are people and happy about where they're going. And it's rare to find that in stuff.

I'd read it if you wrote something about Merlin. Take that as you will :).