such_heights: amy and rory looking at a pile of post (stock: reach out and touch)
Amy ([personal profile] such_heights) wrote2010-10-19 02:10 pm

seasonal fests and boundary policing

Sign-ups are open for [livejournal.com profile] rs_small_gifts until October 30th! The one fest that keeps dragging me back to HP.

But folks, can we quickly chat about exchange requests and boundary policing? I know, because I used to do it myself, that it's frequently standard fandom practice to put in a list of kinks that you don't like - 'the usual squicks like scat, bloodplay, watersports', 'none of that icky body fluid stuff' - etc etc.

Let's talk about a couple of the reasons why that's a problem:

1. It relies on a ridiculous premise, namely that there are all these kinky types waiting in the wings to spring on your request and write you watersports fic unless you specifically state otherwise. People want to write things that you'll like! Therefore, they are likely to work based on the things you've listed that you like, rather than assuming that anything you haven't specifically listed in your request is fair game.

Trying to make a complete list of things you dislike would be absurd, we'd be here all week. Keep it simple, specific, and mostly based on things that people genuinely might think to write for you unless you mention it, and it's all be fine. For instance, I've mentioned 'drunkenness' as a thing in my sign-up because it's a common story device in Remus/Sirius fic and one I don't personally like. Giving a long list of kinks you don't like, using derogatory language, being vague (what do you mean by 'the usual squicks' or 'kink' anyway?) or naming rare-in-fandom kinks is unnecessary and unhelpful.

2. And the reason that the above is a particular problem is because the continuous reinforcement of certain kinks as 'gross', 'icky', 'weird' etc is a method of boundary policing and holding up some pretty crappy fandom norms. It shames people who might otherwise want to request and write those things, and it shames people for whom whatever kink in question isn't just a fictional like but a real life practice or interest. By participating in that kind of behaviour you contribute to a culture in which some things are acceptable and others are not, and really we could all do without that.
liseuse: (amelia pond ftw)

[personal profile] liseuse 2010-10-19 01:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for the reminder! I need to go and sign-up today. Yay! for Small Gifts!

that there are all these kinky types waiting in the wings to spring on your request and write you watersports fic unless you specifically state otherwise
I love this image! Just people lurking waiting to spring scatfic on people.


torachan: (Default)

[personal profile] torachan 2010-10-19 01:23 pm (UTC)(link)
So much this. It bugs me every time I see signups for stuff.
gloss: woman in front of birch tree looking to the right (Fury + Val)

[personal profile] gloss 2010-10-19 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)
there are all these kinky types waiting in the wings to spring on your request and write you watersports fic
Dude, I WISH.

This is a great post.
netgirl_y2k: (Default)

[personal profile] netgirl_y2k 2010-10-19 01:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I used to be very guilty of this, I probably still am sometimes, tbh. Mostly because I feel I should put something under dislikes if everyone else is. But you're right, it's daft, because it's not like there's some imaginary fandom person following me from fest to fest just waiting to write me, I dunno, kinky non-con the one time I don't specifically say I don't want it.
anatsuno: ana's throat in a leather collar, and the words "for purchase" (handle without care)

[personal profile] anatsuno 2010-10-19 02:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. Exactly. Thank you.

Yet I talked about it with someone once who was shocked to see me characterizing those notes as anti-kink or policing, and they made me pause when they explained their view which was something like this:

"I was previously unaware that these kinks or stories existed at all, and I never thought of them, so to include them mentally in the list of things that might end up written for me if I don't rule them out is imo a good thing. I thought of it as a broadening of my horizons."

I was gobsmacked for a moment, and then I chalked it up as one of these "I'm doing my privilege-processing in public and I don't care who sees it" blind spots (god knows I have mine too /o\). In the end we came to an understanding and it was cool... but I mention it here because that incident also made me see something I had never imagined before, namely the possibility that the person writing 'no scat, please' is genuinely under the impression that their noting it down is a sign of their tolerance and kink-awareness. That they might be trying to signal hard that they take YKIOK, JNMK to heart, and just fail to realize this is SO NOT THE WAY.

(of course that does not apply to the downright nasty remarks; I'm merely referencing the 'simple' "no X or Y, please" requests.)

Anyway. Great post, yes. <3
anatsuno: a black and wide photo of anatsuno, grinning (all about ana)

[personal profile] anatsuno 2010-10-19 02:08 pm (UTC)(link)
hahahaha, yes, I wish too. Surprise!WatersportsFic! :D
cypher: (sugar and spice--er. sticks and stones--)

[personal profile] cypher 2010-10-19 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you so much for this post. Reading people's Yuletide letters depressed the hell out of me last year, there was so much kink-negativity.
liseuse: (matches)

[personal profile] liseuse 2010-10-19 02:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Who knows there could be a scatfic conspiracy out there! Zomg! Except, you know, not. And really very unlikely to be hanging out in Small Gifts.
thingswithwings: a picture of a lady peeing (queer - pee!)

[personal profile] thingswithwings 2010-10-19 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
*squishes you*
cypher: (bound (and determined))

[personal profile] cypher 2010-10-19 02:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I'll be crossing my fingers, too -- I think starting to talk about the problem now is a really good idea. ♥
sophinisba: Gwen looking sexy from Merlin season 2 promo pics (gwen orly by visualwit)

[personal profile] sophinisba 2010-10-19 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel I should put something under dislikes if everyone else is

Hee, I have trouble with this too. It was especially awkward at merlinfemfest where the item on the form was not "I would prefer not to write" but "Things I won't touch with a ten-foot jousting stick". I just couldn't handle saying that about any kind of fic, although I did list a couple things I don't want to receive.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about the whole thing because I agree that the boundary policing is anti-kink and makes people feel bad, especially when it's the same squicks listed over and over again, but then I also believe people should be specific and honest about the things they don't want so that writers/creators have that guidance. And to me saying "No one's going to write you surprise watersports so you don't need to bother to list it as a squick" reinforces that fannish norm as much as a bunch of requests saying "no watersports, please".

Or maybe I'm just defensive because I listed all the usual squicks in my Yuletide letter last year and now I feel guilty about it, I don't know. :P

[personal profile] such_heights, thanks for this post!
emei: (korsett)

[personal profile] emei 2010-10-19 02:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, thank you for making this post. Fest sign-ups is one of the times where fandom norms become the most clear - maybe where people new to the fandom meet them for the first time - and since fandom can be the first place you find a language to even talk or think about kink... Yeah, less of the boundary policing, please.

The idea of kinky types waiting in the wings to spring surprise kink fic on people, hilarious as it is, probably relies on that sad old view of sexual "deviants" as personal threats to normal people, eagerly plotting to corrupt them. Not like we'd would prefer to interact with people who already share our interests, oh no!
liseuse: (blindfold)

[personal profile] liseuse 2010-10-19 03:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Precisely. Small Gifts is the place you go for fic about hot chocolate, kittens and glitter. Okay, fine. That's a bit of an exaggeration. I got my heart broken by my fic a couple of years ago - but it was canonical misery, and it was still charming.

I mean if someone wanted to request scat then I'm sure they could, and they might even get it written. But, I get the feeling there is a certain amount of self policing when it comes to requesting fic that uses kinks like that. And the atmosphere of small gifts is fluff and charm. Which is also why I stick around in it.

I think I saw a scat fic in some SGA kink meme, a while ago? Maybe. I can't really remember.
anatsuno: a women reads, skeptically (drawing by Kate Beaton) (Default)

[personal profile] anatsuno 2010-10-19 03:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed. >.

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