such_heights | Torchwood 2x13: Exit Wounds

It took my squee and squashed it into little pieces. I'm all... numb. :(

Yeah. I'm going to go eat chocolate and watch David and Catherine on Jonathan Ross in the hope I can start thinking about happy happy TARDIS time and not just want to crawl into a little ball of grief forever and ever. *clings* Why??

Same moment, same feeling, same destoying utter heartache!

But my denial is just about setting in (I'm an early starter). None of it took place, you see. Or, well, actually, I've already played a series of scenario's through my brain in which Owen and Rose both have a big part to play in Fate's plan and, as such, are trained and looked after in the Other Place until they turn up completely unexpectedly at the end of the world when even the Doctor and Jack have given up to save the world. And Tosh has still been OK all along.

You see? It works!

Yeah yeah, that sounds good - or maybe Owen got rescued by the TARDIS at the last moment, and yes, they got to Tosh a little earlier and saved her and it's all fine just you see.

I'm rather glad I read spoilers for this episode, as I knew this was coming. Seriously, Chibnail, you take Owen from one of my least favorite characters ever to someone I like, and kill him off? And Tosh.

(You will like the rumors of who's going to join TW next season, I think.)

Curse you, writers, curse you. Tosh! We can has Bring Back Sato fics, please?

(I shall ask you for those tomorrow with great excitement when I am less distraught, oh god. How did I let myself get so attached to these people?)

Oh, that icon is so appropriate right now. "Shine on, you crazy diamond," indeed.

Hopefully Partners in Crime will be happy. (With lots of Donna snark, please.)

♥ Yes yes.

I am holding out! And about to go watch David and Catherine being silly and happy together and hopefully clips with said snark and so on. Powers That Be, we need mending now!

I give it about two hours until Tosh icons like the Romana one I'm using here.

Go listen to an audio? Perhaps an Eight & Lucie one, as they're right and happy?

*nods* Fandom's got a lot to do now!

Ooh, yes, that's not a half bad idea actually.

Oh god I know.

For, like, the first half of that episode I was like 'this is just stupid and ridiculous and I hate how badly written Torchwood is and oh I so thought it was going to be good' and then that scene with Tosh and I was just in floods. For many hours. Well. Until the lovely Tennant popped up and then I was like 'yaaay!'

But, seriously. Tosh. I don't care, Torchwood is still v. badly written, but Burn and Naoko just about broke my heart with that scene.

Throughout the whole thing I was just so worried that I didn't even really care about what was going on because it felt like something horrible was going to happen. Tennant cheered me up immensely but now I'm all sad again. :(

I'd heard ages ago that someone was going to die this series, I just assumed that I'd misunderstood the spoilers and they were about Owen... God, how could they kill Tosh? I'm just like...Tosh. Could that scene have been any more amazing?

I really hadn't thought they'd be killing off anyone permanently. And it was so beautiful and crushing because she reached truly epic levels of heroism and listened to Owen before he died. He didn't even know she was bleeding out by his autopsy table and she helped him and "that's what I'm here for" and "you're breaking my heart" and oh dear I've gone wibbly again. Burn and Naoko surpassed themselves, it was immense.

I know! I thought it would be fake kill like they did with Rhys last season, but no. They killed two main characters out of 5 and my soul along with it!

I can't believe they're really dead... *sniff*

I'm not going to, I've decided. Denial time!

I'd been thoroughly spoiled. But as soon as Owen started to rant I began to sob uncontrollably. I don't think I've ever seen a death like that on TV before (*racks brain*). And then when Tosh said "You're breaking my heart..." - oh god, it absolutely killed me. So much pain and so much love. These things should not go together.

I'm still so torn. I loved Tosh but they didn't seem to know what to do with her this season and I feel like that she had already reached some sort of conclusion/comfortable-self-state and her death was so so wonderful. I hate it when character deaths are so thrown away. And her's wasn't and I love them for that.

And sort of exactly the same is true for Owen - his arc was complete, his death was wonderful - and yet I'm longing... absolutely longing... for him to be ok, to have escaped somehow. I don't know if I can go without his sarcasm - who will Ianto snark against. :(

Is it wrong, that I kind of want to write an AU of this episode... Must. Not. Start. Another. Long. Fic.

That line in particular was killer, and then Owen's face afterwards and ouch. Sigh.

No, they gave them both enough time and fantastic, noble send-offs and that was great but with Tosh I feel like it's so unfair, that poor woman has had nothing but bad luck when out of practically all of them she's barely done a thing wrong and deserves nothing but flowers and sunshine and happiness, you know? Also, what on earth they're going to do without her I don't know.

Owen, even though I'm upset, I'm more ok with I think, though the loss of Ianto-Owen snark is indeed a tragedy. But his moment of serenity at the end there, and he's had a rough time of it recently and he got a hero's death.

Saying that, there is denial!fic in the pipes, even I never post of it out of shame at my own self-indulgence, because Owen got picked up by the TARDIS at the last minute and goes gallivanting with the Doctor and Donna for a bit, and they got there just in time to save Tosh who's now in a nice convalescence home by the sea and should be back to work soon, and I'm also working on a way whereby Jack wasn't dying continuously for 1900 years because quite honestly it's creeping me the hell out. So um, yes. This new canon, I reject thee!

Gah. I rewatched it last night (because I am obviously a glutton for punishment) - and was coping and not crying and then Tosh's video message popped up and just about killed me.

I totally understand what you mean about Tosh. I was thinking about it last night and I think she felt under-utilised to me, because I didn't understand until last week what problem she was fighting against. *tries to think of a way to explain*

OK, so with each of the others you could see what their internal struggle was - even with Owen, we didn't know why, but the bitterness was so out in the open - so you could watch them dealing with this.

But I personally didn't feel that with Tosh - I could see she was broken, I could see how desperately she needed love - but I didn't have the background to understand that. When I saw last week's, it suddenly clicked to me - because it's partly about penance and partly about proving herself to herself and mostly about what choices you make. Viewed by the story with her mother, all the episodes that focused her aren't about Tosh falling in love and having her heart broke - they're about Tosh falling in love, being forced to make the same decision again and having her heart broken because of that decision. So with Mary and to a lesser extent Adam (both of who are complicated because of the manipulation) - we see her repeating the choice of the loved one with particularly in GBG having disastrous consequences. Then in TTLM, she chooses to loose Tommy, horribly by sending him to his death, but saves the world - and I think that's a real moment of closure (sort of because there's pain as well). And I love that I know this now, but because I'm only seeing this retrospectively I never felt like I was following Tosh's story as it happened, I wasn't feeling it along with her - and that makes me so sad.

You're right with Owen - he had such a fantastic arc and real closure and there was nowhere really left to take him. Actually before I was properly spoiled, I was told that two characters would die and after thinking *oh god, not Ianto* - I decided it was probably Tosh and Owen - because I don't think all the writers knew what to do with Tosh (although the same could be said of Ianto) and because I just don't think Burn would stick around unless there was strong stories to tell - and this season was so huge for Owen.

But I think Owen's death hit me more first because... someone on my flist described the Hub as feeling so empty at the end and that's it exactly - and Owen was such a big personality but, you're absolutely right, what will they do without Tosh??? :( I can't imagine the show at the moment without either of them.

There's a lot of hatred for RTD/Chris Chibnall flying around from this. I've got to admit I don't really get it - I've accepted that on a fictional level I'm part sadist - I want the things I love to hurt me, because I want to care about characters that much and these deaths were so beautiful... They'll hurt for a while but that's good. Plus, I know I do much worse things to myself when I'm writing.

Anyway - bring on the denial!fic because I much prefer your version (also I think John went to the future found Jack, asked him what happened and where he was, then went back to the past and dug Jack up very shortly after he buried him and Grey disappeared, they had the heart to heart/argument that was missing from the show), then they went back to the a few months before he's found in 1907 and re-bury him - obviously this is very convuluted and makes no sense - but it also doesn't make me feel sick).

OK - so you go and fix the deaths (because I cannot think in fic form without Tosh and Owen) and I'll go and try to turn Grey into a bad guy I actually care about. :D

That's a very good point about Tosh - and all of this means her arc is going to be a lot more poignant in retrospect than we ever really knew at the time. That's Tosh all over, really, isn't it, never quite appreciated or understood until it's too late. So she was at her most fantastic, right at the end there, and Owen didn't know and no one else was there to see it and we watch and suddenly get a sense of just what they're all losing and how much she's given the team - that and her message at the end and BAM heartstrings are not so much pulled as snapped.

And I guess the whole Tosh and Owen storyline was wrapped up together, both their own hurts and how they couldn't really get past them - Owen can't come back from the dead, can't get over his fiance, Tosh is still broken in so many ways - and so they can't find any comfort in each other even though we know it's there. All that's left to them is to blaze out together, and neither of them die alone and that's something. They're the last of a former Torchwood, and I guess rebuilding next series is going to be an interesting story, because Gwen and Ianto are both a slightly different breed of team member and they've both not been around nearly as long, and I wonder if Jack will have changed at all.

I really don't want to delve out into fandom at large (heh, when do I ever?) and that seems very silly to me. They've always pounded it into our heads and reminded us in the Declassified that in Torchwood you DIE YOUNG and really this was entirely inevitable at some point and I thought they did them both justice at the end. Honestly, mostly I'm suffering from the bad ache - Christ this is Serenity all over again, actually - but I think it'll turn into the better kind, you're quite right.

Ooh yes yes, that works for me. What I also really want is fic rather like

paperclipbitch's post-Reset story about Gwen and Jack and Ianto dealing with the aftermath and it's very masochistic of me but I think will also help, because in the programme itself they're never going to spend the amounts of time I would like on mourning and the three of them trying to pick up again, even though obviously that'll be an element of the first few episodes. But when the camera panned out at the end there and they were all so small and alone and devastated and oh God how do they ever get over this?

Oh, that sounds good! Grey was so hammy and stupid and I really didn't give a damn, so I would very much like to!

You are so totally right and I hadn't thought of it in those terms, the way they show her in the program does mimic everything about her. *heart breaks again*

Although it's still at the hurting stage, I already know that I'm happy with how they treated the characters and their overall arcs (doesn't stop me wanting them back though). It's like with Martha, I know a lot of people were very unhappy with the end of her arc, but for some reason I found it very satisfying.

I really don't want to delve out into fandom at large (heh, when do I ever?) and that seems very silly to me.

Actually I think your policy is probably the best one, as I'm drawn in again and again by the shiny discussion and forget how frustrated I get. Plus as well as the RTD/CC hatred - you have to deal with the fact that if there's a mistake on Torchwood (half of which I don't agree with as errors) then it's just because they're shit at continuity/plot, whereas if they actually get it right it's just coincidence - and there's been an awful lot of Doctor dislike as well. Which makes me uber-sad and is forcing me to write lengthy meta about how he treats people.

I shall have to go and read that fic next week (tries not to think about the six days left until her looming deadline). And although it is masochistic, I think writing/reading is also very cathartic. I used to suffer from quite bad depression (although I was never medicated for it) - and it would always be combined with massive writers block, and it made me realise that I'm just unhappier if I'm not writing - I need the release it can provide, if that makes sense.

Grey was so hammy and stupid and I really didn't give a damn, so I would very much like to!

Yep - I'm still torn about the episode overall. I loved the wham-bammyness of the beginning, and I loved the silliness and the funnies that were there. I loved John being back (he's trying to force his way into all my fics), and that he wasn't completely evil, I would have liked a little more Ianto (as always) but overall loved that they used the whole team well and the last 10-15 minutes were heartbreakingly good. BUT the stuff with Grey was just horrid, and like you I really couldn't care less - and as that was the plot that was tying the episode together it makes it hard for me to love the episode completely, or to really take the peril seriously as it was happening. And it's such a shame because the writing/guest casting has been great for the rest of the season.

It was really well done, and damned heartbreaking. *sigh*

Wasn't it just? I was impressed by the way they did it, I have to say. Impressed amidst my desire to go hit someone.

I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE THAT I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO AND I CANNOT TURN THE CAPS OFF IT IS GOING TO TAKE ME FOREVER TO GET OVER THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW. YOUR ICON SAYS IT ALL, REALLY.

I THINK I AM GOING TO BE USING IT A LOT WHEN IT COMES TO TORCHWOOD FOR NOW!!!

I don't think I could have cried more. Just ... ouch.

I cannot remember the last time I reacted that strongly to an episode of TV. Woah.

Torchwood 2x13: Exit Wounds

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