| Independence1776 ( |
right now I feel like I'm getting more politically-motivated fannish sentimentality from you rather than a reason.
I really don't see where you're coming from on that. From my POV, I said I was curious, you gave me an explanation I didn't understand, I said so and that it was probably due to the fact that we have two different interpretations of the show, and also gave my interpretation on an issue you said bothered you. So I don't see politics involved… Seriously, I'm highly, highly confused. (But a whole-hearted yes to that Moffat sees the problems.)
I feel like Moffat is telling a story about an increasingly God-like Doctor, but unlike RTD, I feel like Moffat's opinion is that the Doctor probably wouldn't be too bad at the gig, if he wanted it.
Yeah, we have two different views. I think that Moffat's healing the Doctor, backing him away from the god-like aspects, putting him back in the shadows and making him just a person, albeit a powerful one. S6 was about him trying to be the "god" again-- getting rid of the Silence and still unable to save the little girl, raising an army that ended up failing because his enemies knew he'd react how he did, trying to escape dying without letting anyone else in on his plan-- and getting reminded over and over again that when he acts like that, bad things happen.
River's death in the Library is a giant Chekhov's Gun. I literally know no one who doesn't believe that'll get fixed at some point
Me. I think River truly died, and what's in the Library is just a data ghost. But then, my opinion goes back to the fact that I think Moffat's healing the Doctor. Unlike Rose, where he pretended that forever was possible and yet simultaneously ran from the knowledge that it wasn't, he knew River would die and fell in love anyway. He decided that the pain was worth the joy.
And no way does the final resolution of their relationship happen in a bonus scene on the DVDs.
No, it doesn't! I saw that as a teaser, myself. He's definitely going to do more there.
Everything that has happened gets built into the show. Nothing is a complete asspull from left field. If you're paying attention, you can figure it out.
And that is why I love Moffat's writing so much. I *click* with it; it just makes inherent sense to me in a way most other things don't.
And if we have to go there, back to the Library, then who's to say that the Doctor doesn't rewrite River and give Amy and Rory their daughter back? It would be the logical thing for Moffat to write, with his sentimentality for whole families and happy children.
This hits very close to something I've ranted about in the past because it's a huge pile of Do Not Want: I firmly believe the Doctor will never tell Amy and Rory what happens to River. Him doing so would be one of the cruelest things possible. And yeah, him rewriting it would sort-of resolve that hurt (and definitely would if they never knew), but I really can't see Moffat having the Ponds know in the first place.
My guess is that "our" River continues to exist as a fiction in the Library. Maybe the Doctor gives up a regeneration to bring River back as a baby, even. That seems 'right' to me, but tell me why I'm wrong!
I don't know! All I can say, that with how I view the show, it just feels wrong. I'm sorry I can't be more concrete. (It's really bugging me that I can't. Maybe if I spend some time thinking about it, I'll be able to explain. But I can't guarantee it.)
I really don't see where you're coming from on that. From my POV, I said I was curious, you gave me an explanation I didn't understand, I said so and that it was probably due to the fact that we have two different interpretations of the show, and also gave my interpretation on an issue you said bothered you. So I don't see politics involved… Seriously, I'm highly, highly confused. (But a whole-hearted yes to that Moffat sees the problems.)
I feel like Moffat is telling a story about an increasingly God-like Doctor, but unlike RTD, I feel like Moffat's opinion is that the Doctor probably wouldn't be too bad at the gig, if he wanted it.
Yeah, we have two different views. I think that Moffat's healing the Doctor, backing him away from the god-like aspects, putting him back in the shadows and making him just a person, albeit a powerful one. S6 was about him trying to be the "god" again-- getting rid of the Silence and still unable to save the little girl, raising an army that ended up failing because his enemies knew he'd react how he did, trying to escape dying without letting anyone else in on his plan-- and getting reminded over and over again that when he acts like that, bad things happen.
River's death in the Library is a giant Chekhov's Gun. I literally know no one who doesn't believe that'll get fixed at some point
Me. I think River truly died, and what's in the Library is just a data ghost. But then, my opinion goes back to the fact that I think Moffat's healing the Doctor. Unlike Rose, where he pretended that forever was possible and yet simultaneously ran from the knowledge that it wasn't, he knew River would die and fell in love anyway. He decided that the pain was worth the joy.
And no way does the final resolution of their relationship happen in a bonus scene on the DVDs.
No, it doesn't! I saw that as a teaser, myself. He's definitely going to do more there.
Everything that has happened gets built into the show. Nothing is a complete asspull from left field. If you're paying attention, you can figure it out.
And that is why I love Moffat's writing so much. I *click* with it; it just makes inherent sense to me in a way most other things don't.
And if we have to go there, back to the Library, then who's to say that the Doctor doesn't rewrite River and give Amy and Rory their daughter back? It would be the logical thing for Moffat to write, with his sentimentality for whole families and happy children.
This hits very close to something I've ranted about in the past because it's a huge pile of Do Not Want: I firmly believe the Doctor will never tell Amy and Rory what happens to River. Him doing so would be one of the cruelest things possible. And yeah, him rewriting it would sort-of resolve that hurt (and definitely would if they never knew), but I really can't see Moffat having the Ponds know in the first place.
My guess is that "our" River continues to exist as a fiction in the Library. Maybe the Doctor gives up a regeneration to bring River back as a baby, even. That seems 'right' to me, but tell me why I'm wrong!
I don't know! All I can say, that with how I view the show, it just feels wrong. I'm sorry I can't be more concrete. (It's really bugging me that I can't. Maybe if I spend some time thinking about it, I'll be able to explain. But I can't guarantee it.)
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